After 5 years, too many broken promises, and unanswered calls - broadband is still not here. And with the recent Excite@Home bankruptcy, I assume broadband will NEVER be here. My only option is a T-1 line, but for an individual like myself, $800 a month is just too much. I have come up with a plan to wirelessly network my entire neighborhood, which is roughly 13 square miles. So far, I have only a few people interested. With flyers, I plan on getting several hundred added to that list. Who knows how many will be interested after the network is up and running fully.

So, I am wondering what kind of equipment each person will need. This will be an 802.11b wireless 11 mbit/s network with a T-1 line (T-1 for now). I know you need a Yagi antenna with at least a 21db/snr and access points at each location. However, there are as many as 10,000 households in my town all without broadband so I have to have this network easily upgradeable in case the number of users skyrockets. Also, where exactly would I build the central server for the entire town? Would it be at the T-1 providers HQ? I still need a lot of questions answered before I can do this so can anyone direct me to some good guides on how to do this? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Btw, if you are wondering why on earth I am so desperate for broadband, just follow the link in my sig and read my Broadband Horror Story.

I dont really know the details of everything, but I read an article some time ago about a community that set up their own non-profit dsl company. That may be another option for you (sorry I cant give you any more details though, it will likely take a little search engine work to find it).

VERY big project you are talking about. You would use a multipoint bridge setup, with multiple sites pushing the RF. You could mix in some Access Point setups within the infrastructure but it sounds like a straightup multipoint bridge setup. Almost certainly towers with that area, perhaps some path analysis'. You would need a very experienced 802.11b installation company and/or a couple of RF engineers. If you are serious, I work for a company that would probably take a look at it for you. Get the email off my profile and email me if you like. Overhead topography pictures with houses marked that would participate would be a must at some point if you want a legitimate estimate of how much it will cost. Without a complete and thorough site survey, it would be very ballpark however.

quote:Originally posted by budzy:
The engineering on a project like this would be incredibly dificult. If you are serious, prepare to spend a pocket full on at least one RF engineer, towers, climbers, installers, etc... Massive project, but hey, if you want to really get an idea of what you are looking at, get my email off my profile, give me as many overhead topography pictures of your area with houses marked that would participate, and I can give you an idea of the cost after talking with some folks at the office.

Hey, I'm Jewish. Money isn't an issue

As for the satellite shots, I will have them ready soon. There is a lot of land in this area and I need to get a list of all the residents who wish to participate. Btw, what do you do for a living?

quote:Originally posted by Nabu_the_Wise:
I dont really know the details of everything, but I read an article some time ago about a community that set up their own non-profit dsl company. That may be another option for you (sorry I cant give you any more details though, it will likely take a little search engine work to find it).

Geeze nab...when I saw that you replied in my e-mail box, I was expecting a long message from you when I loaded up the page.

Anywho, what do you mean by "non-profit DSL company"? There is no DSL on my side of the street so that is out of the question.

"Btw, what do you do for a living"

Install wireless LAN's and WAN's for schools in the southeast. Some corporate work, but mostly goverment jobs, schools and such.

Sorry, was editing my post when you were typing a response.

I really dont know enough about the subject to make a long post really .

What I was describing had occured in one of the midwestern states. No serice provider had cable or dsl in their area. Eventually they got disgusted with the broken promises of the various companies and decided to take matters into their own hands. So, they created their own dsl service. Supposedly, it wasnt as difficult as they expected.

The fact that youre out of range of the closest isps dsl service doesnt mean that you cant create your own service that is in range.

I really dont recall any better details of it though. Sadly I didnt book mark the story after I was done reading it. I imagine theyre still running as an isp though, so it would be possible to find them. Actually, I dont know that they truly were non-profit. I recall that they werent solely after money though, I recall that their prices were lower than most other isps and they had better services (they had a lot of sdls, and even some vldsl if I recall correctly).

Ok here are the steps if you want some aerial shots.

Go to mapquest.com. For the address type "Fort Washington, PA, 19034". Click the aerial photograph tab. Basically, that entire area needs to be networked. If you want to see an aerial shot of my actual neighborhood, follow the website in my sig and read my Broadband Horror Story. At the bottom of the page, you will see a shot of my house from above.

And just wondering, but where is your company located? Down south somewhere?

quote:Originally posted by Nabu_the_Wise:
...The fact that youre out of range of the closest isps dsl service doesnt mean that you cant create your own service that is in range. ...

Rrright...ok I lost you there. Are you trying to say that I can simply steal someone's DSL connection from across the street and network it with the rest of my neighborhood.

My friends neighbourhood is setup like this, they have 2 t3 lines, and about 120 houses. Almost everyone plays cs there, and he always plays lan games, so regardless of wheather the net is down, gaming online goes on there 24/7.

"And just wondering, but where is your company located?"

Central Florida

quote:Originally posted by Nukem:
My friends neighbourhood is setup like this, they have 2 t3 lines, and about 120 houses. Almost everyone plays cs there, and he always plays lan games, so regardless of wheather the net is down, gaming online goes on there 24/7.

I am assuming this is in Europe, correct?

Do they have a town website?

And also, what kind of network is it? Wireless? Copper?

quote:Originally posted by budzy:
"And just wondering, but where is your company located?"

Central Florida

I see. Well I am up here in Philly. Does your company do work here or no?

We were just in New Jersey. We will go anywhere for money. We're whores. lol. Actually we are waiting on a bid to be granted for 3000 portable classrooms in Broward County. If we get that, we will be busy for 6 or 7 months, but I will look at your link tomorrow and butt heads with our other engineer and get back to you.

quote:Originally posted by budzy:
We were just in New Jersey. We will go anywhere for money. We're whores. lol. Actually we are waiting on a bid to be granted for 3000 portable classrooms in Broward County. If we get that, we will be busy for 6 or 7 months, but I will look at your link tomorrow and butt heads with our other engineer and get back to you.

Ok thanks. I would appreciate that.

First of all....a T1 is apprx. 1.5 Mbit/sec. You would need at least 7 per house. Now considering there are 10,000 houses, that comes to 70,000 T1 lines. You would need a small warehouse to house all of those lines, not to mention the routers and CSU/DSU's! Your idea is not feasable at all, there is no cost effective way to do that....you are better off getting a T1 for yourself. Sorry... WOW...56 million...

quote:Originally posted by jchalos:
First of all....a T1 is apprx. 1.5 Mbit/sec. You would need at least 7 per house. Now considering there are 10,000 houses, that comes to 70,000 T1 lines. You would need a small warehouse to house all of those lines, not to mention the routers and CSU/DSU's! Your idea is not feasable at all, there is no cost effective way to do that....you are better off getting a T1 for yourself. Sorry... WOW...56 million...

Ever hear of a T-3 line? Didn't think so. Why in the world do I need 7 T-1 lines per house? I don't even need one! I can have 8 nodes to a single T-1 and still be safe. If this project grows big enough, I can tap into the U.S. Backbone with fiber-optic connections which, by the way, runs "conveniently" through my town.

Damn. Get em J. Hey sorry, i had to go to a jobsite today. I will look at the link tomorrow.

*looks at post regarding 7 T1's per house and begins laughing*

What are you talking about? I work at a medical clinic, and we have one T1 for our entire internet access. And I still get very fast downloads. In fact we used to share a T1 with the hospital in our town, and still got fast downloads and access. If you don't know of what others are talking about...please don't talk. You're just opening yourself up for flames.

Mapquest displays are useless. The aerial on your page is a little better but still too far away to really get a good idea of your areas tree canopy. Here is my suggestion. Find a local company that specializes in this, and get them out for a site survey. If we were local we would charge around 1000 bucks to do a detailed site survey and proposal. We eat that if we get the job, but I cant speak to the deal you might get from a local company. You would likely need mutliple towers, with control rooms, with a combination of directional and omni directional antennas, multiple segments, decent quality routers, perhaps some amps, plenty of 5/8ths cable. at houses would be done on a case by case basis, depending on distance to the tower and foliage (obstructions). I'll be honest with you. If I owned a company, (I am merely an engineer/tech), I wouldnt take a job like this. Not with 802.11b anyway. Too much interference. Even with the 5.8Ghz about to come out, there will quickly be interference issues on a job of this scale. Its the nature of an unlicensed band. I am sure most companies would tell you differently if they were trying to sell you their services, but I deal with frequency and interference issues everyday with the 802.11b stuff. We only sell proprietary wireless products when we do a WAN, but still use the 2.4 for local area stuff. When choosing a company, require an RF engineer as project manager as one of your requirements for doing business. This job would need an accomplished engineer.

quote:Originally posted by ktwebb68:
Mapquest displays are useless. The aerial on your page is a little better but still too far away to really get a good idea of your areas tree canopy. Here is my suggestion. Find a local company that specializes in this, and get them out for a site survey. If we were local we would charge around 1000 bucks to do a detailed site survey and proposal. We eat that if we get the job, but I cant speak to the deal you might get from a local company. You would likely need mutliple towers, with control rooms, with a combination of directional and omni directional antennas, multiple segments, decent quality routers, perhaps some amps, plenty of 5/8ths cable. at houses would be done on a case by case basis, depending on distance to the tower and foliage (obstructions). I'll be honest with you. If I owned a company, (I am merely an engineer/tech), I wouldnt take a job like this. Not with 802.11b anyway. Too much interference. Even with the 5.8Ghz about to come out, there will quickly be interference issues on a job of this scale. Its the nature of an unlicensed band. I am sure most companies would tell you differently if they were trying to sell you their services, but I deal with frequency and interference issues everyday with the 802.11b stuff. We only sell proprietary wireless products when we do a WAN, but still use the 2.4 for local area stuff. When choosing a company, require an RF engineer as project manager as one of your requirements for doing business. This job would need an accomplished engineer.

So what are you trying to say exactly? Stay away from 802.11x? What would I use then to network everything? Fiber optic?

quote:Originally posted by J Silver:
So what are you trying to say exactly? Stay away from 802.11x? What would I use then to network everything? Fiber optic?

If money is no object, would probably be the best solution...

quote:Originally posted by BigChin:
If money is no object, would probably be the best solution...

Well it would seem that fiber optic is actually the cheapest, wouldn't it? The reason why wireless is cheaper is because you don't have to lay down the lines, but the equipment for it can be very expensive. Fiber optic on the other hand is very cheap to run and the equipment is moderately priced.